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Report 565
Report #565 Skillset: Skill: Thunderclap Org: Geomancers Status: Rejected Feb 2011 Furies' Decision: We do not find this to be necessary. Problem: The entire purpose of stonewalls is that they take more than one hit to break. If your opponent can break them in one hit, there's no reason to use them over icewalls. Thunderclap is a skill purchaseable by ascendants in every org that does indeed destroy stonewalls in one hit for a marginal essence cost. While it is, of course, limited by having to be an ascendant, this doesn't matter awfully much because all you need is one ascendant to bust stonewalls for the whole group. As more ascendants and vernal demigods are added to the game, the issue will become only more pronounced. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Change thunderclap to do x amount of wall damage, x being enough to one shot an icewall, but not one shot a stonewall. In exchange, it will also extinguish firewalls and tear down briar walls (walls that can already be one shot, one at a time). 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Replace thunderclap's current effect with giving prone/paralyse to all enemies (those afflictions chosen because they cannot stack over themselves, aren't stun, and paralysis only takes 1s to focus at trans discipline). Raise essence cost to 30k and give it a 20 - 30 second cooldown. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Replace thunderclap's current effect with gusting each of your enemies in a random direction. Raise essence cost to 15k and make usable only once per day. Player Comments: ---on 2/14 @ 23:31 writes: I'm not sure I buy that the 'only reason for Stonewalls is that they have more health than an icewall'-- there is, after all, the ability to do GEOCAST STONEWALL DEMESNE which one cannot do with icewalls. That's a pretty significant boost right there. They also cannot be taken down by anyone with an ignite enchantment, but only by someone who A) Is an Ascendant (a very limited number, at most 3 per org + 1 per year), and B) has invested a lot of essence and used up weighting (or was raised through the War domoth). Further, a lot of us don't even buy Thunderclap, so just because more are in the game does not necessarily mean that the issue will be more pronounced (unless, of course, they ever get around to reweighting the things). Honestly, I'd prefer to see stonewalls be made easier to knock down than they currently are. Halve their health or something. There's too much disparity between them and other walls. I'm not convinced that we need to make them stronger than they are. ---on 2/15 @ 03:41 writes: I don't personally see this as necessary. Stonewalls are the most difficult type of wall to take down, I think it is fair that Thunderclap is able to remove them and agree with Xenthos when he says that he would prefer that they be made easier to knock down. ---on 2/15 @ 04:56 writes: To echo the above, I don't believe this is necessary as well. If people want to spend 8mil essence just for a very situational power, then let them have it as it is. As for your other solutions, no. I don't see the need to convert the power into an offensive attack when its effects are nicely limited already. ---on 2/16 @ 00:43 writes: Truth be told, shofangi ram, which has essentially the same functionality, has existed for some time now and has particularly lessoned or discouraged the usage of stonewall. As mentioned in previous comments, vernal ascendants and likely still true ascendants will remain in limited number in the forseeable future and stonewalls have no particular special cost to cast (only really requiring tainted ground) so this change is unnecesary. If anything, it underscores the fact that environment crashing is woefully inadequate in dealing with stonewalls if ascendants feel it necessary to take up the power for the sole reason of destroying that wall type. ---on 2/18 @ 02:53 writes: As you might guess, I'm not the biggest fan of the shofangi stonewall breaker either. However, that's just a one org counter, similar to how Glomdoring can counter rad with bonds, for instance. It doesn't invalidate the skill. On the other hand, Thunderclap, being available to all orgs, kinda does. ---on 2/19 @ 00:40 writes: Being available to a very select few, and of those very select few, almost none of them actually buying it... there are 2 whole people with the skill aside from yourself who got it for free with 0 weight. Out of what, 12 Ascendants and another 4 or so Vernal Demigods? Again, I say, don't nerf Thunderclap. Make Stonewalls easier to bust down. They have their own advantage in that they can be done area-wide, and even if it only takes two crashes / blasthorns / etc. to break one, that's still twice the time it takes for an ignite enchantment on an icewall. ---on 2/20 @ 03:36 writes: With the sweeping changes made to limit the number of ascendants to any given org, this isn't much of a problem. We'd all love it if you'd go ahead and use icewalls. ---on 2/21 @ 02:21 writes: I think as the forcefield report indicates, there being a small amount of people with a skill/item does not mean that the skill/item is unbalanced. I don't buy the argument that it's not a problem simply because it's limited to a select few. ---on 2/21 @ 14:51 writes: Except we already know that's not the case here, Sahmiam, because of Ceren's response to the Shofangi aspect of it (which is a 'select few with access to a skill' as you put it): "However, that's just a one org counter." His report is not about it being accessible by a select few, it is about it being 'more widespread than a select few'. I have responded that such is not actually the case. I feel like you've missed his argument entirely! And if you think Mages with Barrier are a 'small amount of people,' then I think you've got a pretty strange definition of small. Mages tend to very much love their barrier. Hence the need for the report, when it clearly had issues. ---on 2/24 @ 08:47 writes: Oh trust me, if I thought I a report that encompassed both ballbuster kick and thunderclap would have a chance of succeeding, I'd do it. Thunderclap is just the much bigger fish to fry. Also, you're strange. I know you know it's called forcefield... ---on 2/24 @ 23:55 writes: Indeed it is, I didn't feel like making another comment to correct it. I was 99% sure anyone reading would figure out what I meant given the context (and you did!). I also think that more people currently possess kick than thunderclap, no? There are 3 with Thunderclap, so I'm not really buying that it's the bigger fish to fry here. Perhaps the one more common for Magnagora to work against these days.